As the midterm elections approach, there is some disagreement among Democrats as to how much spending is too much.
Two former Democratic governors say current party leaders have gone too far. Christine Gregoire and Gary Locke have both made speeches in recent months criticizing what they call the lack of budget discipline in Olympia.
Gary Locke came to the KNKX studios in Seattle to talk with Morning Edition host Kirsten Kendrick about his concerns and some possible solutions.
Transcript
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
KNKX's Kirsten Kendrick: Thanks for coming in.
Former Washington Governor Gary Locke: Good to see you. It's been many, many years.
Kendrick: It has been, yeah! Before we do get started, I wanted to let listeners know that I was part of your communications team during the last half of your second term. This was more than 20 years ago now.
Locke: Oh my gosh — it's hard to think about that.
Kendrick: It is. But I just wanted to make sure folks knew that.
The reason we wanted to talk with you is the recent comments that you have made about fellow Democrats who are currently in charge in Olympia. Why did you feel the need to go public with your criticism?
Locke: Well, I'm very concerned about the voters possibly losing faith with all levels of government if we continue to start programs, cut back programs, raise taxes, and not really have any budget discipline.
We have enormous challenges in the state of Washington, and I don't envy the task that our legislators and our governor are facing. But when we constantly raise revenues and then say that it's not enough, and then we raise them again, and then we're not even looking at the efficiency and the effectiveness of current programs, pretty soon the voters are going to say, "The promises are not being kept, and we're just being taxed like crazy."
Kendrick: As governor, you were known as someone with strong fiscal discipline. The term "budget nerd" was bandied about when you were in the legislature and in the governor's office. What was your approach to putting together a budget?
Locke: Well I think that we really have to, first of all, prioritize the functions and the purposes of government. And we really need to say, OK, how much money do we have available? Not just in this current budget cycle, but the next few budget cycles. And knowing that money is going to be tight, what do we really value?
And that means perhaps enhancing and providing more funding for certain programs, whether it's education or what have you, or human services. But then maybe cutting back on some others, and really understanding what the voters really want and what they want to accomplish. We should really do a few things really well, and not just do everything in a mediocre fashion. That also means partnerships with the private sector and the nonprofit sector, and so forth. Government can never do it all.
Kendrick: Current Democratic officeholders defend themselves by pointing to federal cuts that have affected the states, and that three of their major new spending programs passed in statewide votes. You even said that you don't envy their their current challenges. What do you say to that? How would you solve these problems or try to solve these problems if you were governor today?
Locke: Well obviously the federal cutbacks have hurt us, and the states are being required to pick up more of the tab and more of the responsibilities, and that's why the Legislature and the governor have huge tasks in front of them. But they also have to have some budget principles.
Let's take an example. I'm going to buy a car, and my monthly payments are $1,000 a month, and I start in December of 2026. It only cost me $1,000 in 2026, but it's going to cost me $12,000 in 2027. Olympia has engaged in those similar practices.
Also, you cannot take one-time money, like COVID money, and use it for permanent, ongoing programs that require money every single year. So when the COVID money runs out, how are they planning on replacing it? How are they going to fund those particular programs? Perhaps they should just use that money for one-time purposes only, so that you don't create high and false expectations among the public.
You know, several years ago we had the carbon tax, and then there was an initiative to repeal that carbon tax. And the legislators and the governor said, "No, it's only going to be used for climate-related." Well, what did Olympia recently do? They raided that money to use for general government purposes.
We're seeing that at the local level too, where voters are asked to approve tax increases for mental health and homeless programs. And they pledge to the voters that's all it's going to be used for, and yet when budgets got tight, they raided that very source of money.
Kendrick: What are the perils of continuing down this road, and do you think that the spending can be reined in? I mean, is it setting those priorities like you talked about, or what could be done at this point to try to, kind of, right the ship?
Locke: We need tax reform, and we need a graduated income tax that applies to all levels. Low-income and working families are paying an unfair share of the tax burden.
But, you know, the Legislature just passed the millionaires tax, and even with the millionaires tax, they don't have enough money in the out years. So what's going to happen then? Where are we going in terms of true tax reform, if ever?
One thing Olympia has done is that they've ignored the forecasts or the estimates of future income. There's a thing called the State Forecasting Council that says this is how much money you're going to have in the current budget year, and Olympia is required to pass a budget that's balanced within that dollar amount estimated by the State Forecasting Council. Olympia has disregarded that estimate and said, "No, we really think that the money coming into the state will be much, much higher, and therefore we can pass these programs right now and say yes, there's sufficient money to pay for it in the out years" —when in fact there never has been.
Kendrick: Have you heard from Gov. Ferguson's office or any other folks who are in leadership in Olympia regarding what you've said publicly in these last couple of months?
Locke: I've talked to Gov. Ferguson, and I know he's really trying hard. In some ways, he when he came into office, he inherited a problem not of his making. All these costs that were going up because of programs that had been launched in previous years without the money to pay for them. He's also got to work with a legislature that has a huge appetite for various programs.
And don't get me wrong, I support all these programs. And when I was governor and even a state legislator, I initiated various programs. But then when funding got tight, I had to make the hard decisions to actually cut back or eliminate some of the very programs that I had championed as a legislator.
Kendrick: Former Gov. Gary Locke, thank you for coming in today.
Locke: My pleasure.
