STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
People working to influence the administration include Mark Dubowitz. He directs the Foundation for Defense of Democracies. It has close ties to the U.S. and Israeli national security establishments. Dubowitz was a prominent critic of President Obama's nuclear agreement with Iran a decade ago. He said Iran could never be trusted. His group has since been sanctioned by Iran's government, and Dubowitz has been making the case for war.
MARK DUBOWITZ: It's very clear Iran has to fully dismantle their nuclear programs, zero enrichment, zero reprocessing. And there need to be severe restrictions on its very dangerous ballistic missile program and ends its support for terrorism, release political prisoners and end its repression of the Iranian people. In other words, act like a normal nation that doesn't threaten the United States, Israel and our other allies in the region.
INSKEEP: I guess we should point out what you're saying here. The Iranians seem to be, based on public statements, talking about a relatively narrow deal in which they would agree to some restrictions on their nuclear program in exchange for the U.S. dropping sanctions. And Americans have been talking, as you just did, about a much broader agreement that would require much more of the Iranians. Am I right?
DUBOWITZ: You're right, but even Iran is not meeting the minimum demands of President Trump on the nuclear side. They're not willing to stop enrichment and reprocessing. These are nonstarters for both the Americans and for the Israelis.
INSKEEP: You have publicly said it's pointless to talk. Why is it pointless to talk?
DUBOWITZ: Well, I actually didn't say it was pointless to talk. I said you got to strike first and then talk. I think President Trump laid out a clear red line during the recent round of protests that help was on its way, that he had the back of Iranian protesters, that Iranians should take over their institutions. And in laying a clear red line, he needs to enforce it.
INSKEEP: Just to clarify what you're saying, you're saying go to war first and then talk after the Iranians have surrendered.
DUBOWITZ: Well, what I am saying is, first of all, it's time to neutralize Iran's last remaining and most dangerous capability, which are the thousands of ballistic missiles and cruise missiles that they have that threaten not just Israel and our Gulf allies, but threaten U.S. forces, and then talk to the Iranians about these other demands.
INSKEEP: Iran's neighbors, such as the Persian Gulf nations, seem really not to want this war because the Iranians have suggested that they would strike out at other nations. They clearly have a lot at stake here. How would you persuade them that being struck by Iran is worth the risk?
DUBOWITZ: Well, I think they're saying different things. I mean, depending on which country you're talking about, and they're saying things differently publicly versus privately. They understand what a threat the regime represents. So at the end of the day, President Trump's going to make his own decision. He's not going to be influenced by our Gulf Arabs or by the Israelis. This is about American national security, and we need to eliminate that ballistic missile capability. And also, the Iranians are building up their nuclear capability.
INSKEEP: Do you not worry about what would be seen as a war of choice causing a wider regional conflict that could be a catastrophe with many thousands of people dead?
DUBOWITZ: Well, I mean, these warnings, you know, have come out repeated times, and certainly, President Trump has shown in using military force. He killed Qasem Soleimani in the first term, who was Iran's most deadly - and I would say probably brilliant - battlefield commander. Everybody felt there'd be World War III. There wasn't. When the Israelis struck Iran last year, there wasn't. They thought there'd be World War III when President Trump dropped 14 Massive Ordinance Penetrators on the Fordo nuclear facility and eliminated that, and there wasn't World War III. But it's a dangerous enemy of the United States, and it needs to be neutralized.
INSKEEP: Seems clear that the president does not want a long war. He wants a quick and decisive strike if he does anything. He's backed away from a strike already. The president also very, very, very much wants a Nobel Peace Prize. Are you, as an opponent of a deal with Iran, afraid of what the president might do?
DUBOWITZ: Look, I'm always concerned 'cause the only place that the regime has beaten us consistently over multiple presidents is at the negotiating table. But I'm hoping that President Trump understands that his legacy's on the line, and he doesn't want to be Obama 2.0 and give the Iranians another fatally flawed agreement that helps them rebuild these most dangerous capabilities and engage in continued brutal repression against their own people and brutal aggression in the Middle East.
INSKEEP: Mark Dubowitz is CEO of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies. Thanks so much, Mr. Dubowitz.
DUBOWITZ: Thank you, Steve, for having me. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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